Larval Tear | |
|---|---|
 | |
| Type | Key Item |
 Effect Material needed by Rennala to grant rebirth | |
Larval Tears are Key Items in Elden Ring. ALarval Tearis amaterial needed by Rennala to grant rebirth. Key Itemsin Elden Ring include a wide variety ofitems found in specific locations or given by a related NPC,which are used to unlock areas, quests, and to further progress the game's story.
Core of a creature of mimicry known as a silver tear.
As much as a substance as it is a living organism.
Material required by the amber egg cradled by Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon, to birth people anew.
Being born anew allows the reallocation of attributes boosted by leveling up.
Where to find Larval Tear in Elden Ring
- Dropped by a Lesser Runebeardisguised as a lone sword-wielding Wandering Noblestanding directly east of the Agheel Lake South site of grace. [Map link]
- Found in the graveyardat theVillage of the Albinaurics. [Map link]
- Dropped by a Grafted Sciondisguised as a Giant Crayfish patrolling around the gazebo between Rose Church and Boilprawn Shack. There are four Giant Crayfish in this area; three of them are sleeping, and one is patrolling. The disguised Grafted Scion is the one patrolling. Easily reached by:
- Going south from Fallen Ruins of the Lake site of grace, or
- Going northeast from Folly on the Lake site of grace, or
- Going northwest from Boilprawn Shack site of grace. [Map link]
- Found in the graveyard east of Caria Manorafter obtaining theResurrection Painting. This area can only be reached after defeating Royal Knight Loretta. The item is found by touching aghost sitting on a chair at the graveyard. The ghost disappears as soon as you touch it and theLarval Tear will appear on the ground along with a Juvenile Scholar Capand Juvenile Scholar Robe. [Map link]
- Purchased fromPidia, Carian Servant for 3,000 runes (one available). He can be reached after defeatingRoyal Knight Loretta,thenjumpingdown the cliffs from the southeastern side of theThree Sisterssub-area onto a balcony.
- Dropped by a Trolldisguised as aWandering Noblein Caelid, by the stone coffins on the cliff south of the Caelid Highway Southsite of grace. The disguised Troll is the one kneeling at the western end. [Map Link]
- Dropped by a Lion Guardian disguised as an Wandering Noblecowering in a corner in the unnamed ruins southeast of Windmill Village. The ruins are on the clifftops, most easily reached by going north from the Rampartside Path site of grace. [Map link]
- Dropped by a Wormface disguised as a flamingPutrid Corpse, east of the Road of Iniquitysite of grace. The enemy is next to the first fire of the ruined camp. [Map link]
- Dropped by a Lesser Runebeardisguised as a Wandering Noble,in theConsecrated Snowfield. The disguised bear is half-buried in snow, with two nobles standing next to it. They are located southeast of the Inner Consecrated Snowfield site of grace.[Map link]
- Purchased from the Nomadic Merchant in Siofra River, for 3,000 Runes(one available). [Map link]
[Video Location]
- Found on a corpse inside the stone building southeast of the Nokron, Eternal Citysite of grace. [Map link][Video location]
- Found on a corpse in the middle of a gazebo in Nokron, Eternal City. When approaching the corpse, Silver Tears will fall down from the ceiling. [Map link] [Video location]
- Dropped by a Silver Sphere in Night's Sacred Ground. [Map link][Video location]
- Two (2) dropped by Mimic Tear when defeated. [Map link][Video location]
- Dropped by aSilver Sphere on the bridge inNokstella, Eternal City. [Map link]
- Dropped by aSilver Sphere hanging from the ceiling in the northeast building after the bridge inNokstella, Eternal City. You can deal damage to it at range, but don'tland the killing blow while it's still on the ceiling, because the dropped item will be unreachable. [Elden Ring Map Here]
- Dropped by aSilver Sphere after the bridge and up the stairs, in the building immediately after reaching the top, inNokstella, Eternal City. It is hanging from the ceiling, dripping Silver Tears. [Elden Ring Map Here]
Larval Tear Use
Larval TearNotes & Tips
- You do not need to defeat Rennalafor the enemies to change shape when you kill them in their disguise.
- By the time you fight Rennala, you should have enough runes to buy the Larval Tears from the previously mentioned merchants.
- You will keep all the Larval Tearsin your inventory upon enteringNew Game Plus.
- Cannot be dropped for Player Trade.
- If the player gives Boc the Seamster a Larval Tear, he will visit Rennala, be reborn with a human visage, and die soon after. The player will not be able to use his services for the rest of the game.
- Although during online coop it appears the player as a Furled Finger could pick up it as a drop from the corresponding enemies, the picked up Larval Tears will be removed from player’s inventory upon returning to their own worlds.
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Anonymous
Am i the only one the is disappointed by this? Rennala asks if i "Wish to boirn anew?" yet i can't reallocate that 6 faith that my Prisner started with to anything useful for my buld. That ain't realy "born anew" but more like reverse time a lil bit.
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Anonymous
There are even fewer items to max out your weapons to +10 or +24. I don't really get why respecing your character more than 16 times is so important. If you want just rune farm and have enough stats to do whatever weapon you like? Souls games were always about choices that you can't take back. It's just how you can kill crucial NPCs and they won't come back.
In my opinion, making them limited is just to motivate you to focus on actually finishing the game. In DS3, just changing your characters appearance cost you one of your respecs, so we already got a buff. Really, to me, this is the same argument that "This game is too hard! I paid good money for it so I should be able to beat it!".
I dunno really, everyone is going to have thier own opinions in the end.
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Anonymous
Any wanderer near a cliff can be kicked off harmlessly without losing the disguise.
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Anonymous
Let us buy this tears with souls. I mean, doesnt make sense, such a big big game, and you can only respec once a game? I hope we get more in the DLC.
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Anonymous
Best solution: remove this dumb item. Let respec cost souls depending on what ng you are on. A high cost so that there is a soul sink in this game.
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Cool if it was infinite (bought from maiden husks) but for every tear bought the pize rises, like... 10 or 20k. 99% of people do not respec their character 16times in one game, so there is no reason to limit this imho
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Anonymous
Ok seriously. In 5 min of reading these comments, there is an easy solution for all perspectives. Make an arena where you can build a spec to test on waves of npcs. No runes gained and spec is not retained after each session. Let's folks test weapons and skills without wasting valuable limited resources. 16 larval tears is then more than enough in all scenarios.
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Anonymous
Y'all each saying you've got the solution for it when I haven't seen a single one of you mention bringing back bonfire (grace) ascetics.
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Anonymous
Oh yes, being punished for wanting to try every cool weapon/build of the game I BOUGHT WITH MY OWN MONEY, it is like it is saying: No, you can't try all you want on a single run, go do the entire content again if you want to, **** your enjoyment that you were supposed to have while enjoying every aspect of the open world, rush it if you wanna try something cool and DO IT AGAIN. Another attempt to force people on to going NG+, this should be optional, not something forced to make you enjoy 100% of the game that was supposed to have on the first run on the first place.
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Anonymous
While I agree there should be a way to get more tears, it's pointless to try many different builds on the same character when there is also a limited supply of max upgrade materials. I guess going into higher NG cycles would be the only way to get more upgrade mats + tears unless you're using CE on pc ofc.
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Oops, turns out I wanted 16 strength instead of 15, I guess I'll have only about 15 chances to waste 30 minutes of my life getting authorization from an abusive game to change 1 bit of code! "10/10 15 year old kid game design ideas" I was going to say that, but I'm sure plenty of ~15 year old devs actually game design better than this LMAO (one convincing piece of evidence is how this game still uses unmodified 13 year old broken garbage camera code from probably Demon's Souls that behaves like a professional neck snapper, the code is not just collecting spider webs it's turning radioactive)
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Anonymous
There isn't actually 18 in the game, there is 16 because it is inevitable you will make the true meta build (high/max) dex/fth build with the minimum strength requirement to wield Sacred Relic Sword to slaughter Albinaurics.
The other one will be used to respec into a new build with the fat stack of runes you collected.
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Anonymous
There needs to be way more of these...
...as in why tf aren't they purchasable? Make them a high price but ffs it sucks having to go into ng+ when you like to switch up builds on one playthrough. Like holy smokes mikey I dun wanna collect all this bs again.
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Anonymous
Everyone saying that these shouldn't be infinite clearly aren't aware of the glitch in DS3 lmaooo
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Anonymous
I may have the answer to the problem of infinite respecing. Obviously, respecing for every boss is a little bit like cheating. Having limited attempts for that is fine, but infinite respecing at late game would be fun. In addition, sometimes you hit a wall/rut where you are just bored and need something fresh after beating a game's story. So just make a reward for the final boss (either in base game or DLC) a bell bearing that allows for the purchase of larval tears. That way you can't respec infinitely just to beat a boss, but you can have fun experimenting in the post-story game. This is, after all, what the bell bearing system is for. The game forces you to do the grinding for smithing stones system until you find the bell bearing and then you can buy all the stones you want for upgrading weapons to +24. Do the same thing with Larval Tears.
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Anonymous
I wish these could at least be farmable by the big balls. Even like a 1% drop rate, just let me respec infinitely without running cheat engine.
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Anonymous
The number of tears in the game is fine atm. Just beat the game with the easiest build imaginable (ungabunga strength build), no need to respec (or use brains or skills for that matter). Afterwards you can try out some builds that actually require the said skills and brains.
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Anonymous
I think I'll just pay the 500 runes per alteration. Enjoy being a tree for all eternity!
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Anonymous
use scenario : change build because you want to optimise your attributes to fit the build you’d like to try……….game : actually? no… either go ng+ or make a new character………… it’s not challenging…. it’s both a convinient feature and a low blow once you reach the limit…. not everyone wants to go in ng+ and not everyone wants to make an alt account to make different builds……..i am not even joking, back in 2018 on dark souls 3, i made 4 alt accounts for the total of 48 builds i wanted to do ( and go back to them whenever i felt like using it later )…………there are too much options to pick from and some people really want to enjoy them all
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Anonymous
Do people forget that throughout the entirety of Dark Souls 3's life-cycle you could respec infinitely using a very easy to do glitch? No one ever complained about that "ruining the aspect of challenge"
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Anonymous
On your first playthrough, the lack of these can feel quite unforgiving. New players typically want to try out the vast array of spells and weapons immediately upon discovery (I know I did). This can end up leaving you in a bind, and you might feel punished for experimenting with builds.
Though, once you know how many there are, where they are and what build you want to run... There's more than enough.For any new players, I'd say hang off on spending these immediately and just enjoy what you're capable of using with your current build, level up and invest in a broader stat pool to try out as much as possible (sod optimal stats on your first run). When you have a better idea of what kind of tools you want at your disposal, use these tears to optimise your stat spread to get the most of them.
I agree with the sentiment that making these infinite would take from the game. Elden Ring is an action RPG. Chiselling out your identity through your build is one of the few RP aspects of this game. Giving players the ability to change identity easily and infinitely would detract from having to make real decisions about your role in the lands between.
I understand many players value ease and convenience over these factors, but they're something to consider imo.
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Anonymous
The people that want more of these just want to try more builds. The people that don't want more just don't want others to try more builds. It's some "I don't need them so nobody should get them" egocentric thinking. You don't have to use them if you don't want to.
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Anonymous
I'd like to take back my last 2 comments. I keep forgetting about PVP because it is irrelevant to me. Speaking only for PVE, these should not be infinite. There are more than enough of them. Live with the choices you make. I can't imagine what it takes to use all 18 of them. I've used maybe 3 in my 300 hours and it doesn't matter anymore because im level 444 so i have 99 in several stats. I don't care for PVP but PVE is fine as it is.
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Anonymous
I don't understand the issue here. There are plenty of these. More than enough to try different builds. Making these infinite will only encourage changing styles before a bossfight which removes some of the challenge. If you are a magic user, then fight Rennala as one. You chose this. You want to change? Go and get a larval tear. Theyre not even difficult to get, some are SOLD!!
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Anonymous
I understand both sides of the argument. I usually ask for things like this to be infinite, but not this time. This game is supposed to be a challenge. You shouldn't be able to change your stats whenever it's convenient. I like having to go get a new Tear if i need a change. Please don't change this item.
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Anonymous
So, I'm in bit of a pickle, i was horsing around with a meme sleep invasion build online, and when i had my fun, i went ahead and attenpted respecing back to my normal build, i forgot i have used all my larval tears to this point and picked up every one of them during my playthrough. Now I'm stuck with this build and I don't think there is any way I'm gonna beat bosses and start ng with a sleep stick. Thank you fromsoftware for punching me in the guts for just trying out different builds and possibilities and having fun after beating the game.
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Anonymous
I hope they never make this infinite or farmable. Fromsoft should never listen to casuals. In DLC they should add 2 or 3 at best.
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Anonymous
The people in the comments thinking you can cheese any of the bosses by simply respeccing hard enough haven't played these games enough lmao. It's like thinking that giving yourself 80 Vigor is going to do anything other than make you have two extra hits.
Respec should be free and unlimited at the SoG. And no: multiplayer is already busted (again) like it was in DS3 with gank squads galore you're never, ever going to make it balanced so quit trying and worrying about it since PVP has always and will always be secondary and never was fun to begin with because of everyone cheating no matter how many times FROM balanced it.
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Anonymous
So Ds3 infinite respec was ok because of a glitch but save scumming and reloading to respec just for PvP is too much trouble?
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Anonymous
this should be sold indefinitely or there should be the option of farming them. they dont have to be super easy to get but then again we should be allowed to try different ways to play, this game has been broken 1000 and one times, bosses included. this is nothing game breaking IMO even if you use it for evey boss.
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Anonymous
Why do I feel like these things probably would taste ok irl
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Anonymous
I kinda hope that they include the ability to buy these infinitely in the dlc. Like, they definitely shouldnt cheap, and I understand being able to respec for every boss could be a game-breaker, but this is Elden Ring. We can already break it in half with almost every stat, and it's MASSIVE compared to the other souls games. Having limited respecs there made sense because they were way shorter and making a new character to attempt a run was thus more reasonable. But this games depth and options feel like it's meant to be experimented with, and the limited resources of the older games feel far less challenging and more annoying in this game. That's my thoughts anyway.
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Anonymous
I used this now when I try to lure in invaders they aren't coming but I can still invade, does using this make it so you can't be invaded for a short period?
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Anonymous
I’ve eaten probably over 10 of these on ng+ to try out different builds. My characters eyes have changed now from the frenzied flame yellow to the same silver color of the larval tear. Also my three finger burns are gone with out using the needle. I’m confused and can’t find anything about it
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Anonymous
Larval tears shouldn't exist. We should be able to respec as much as we want. At the end of the day it's a video game, and being able to experiment with different weapons equates to more fun. Last time I checked video games were designed to provide fun. FromSoft need to get a bit better at learning when to compromise on their vision to enhance the fun aspect. They've already shown they're willing to do this by adding conveniences such as map markers and stake of miraka.
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Anonymous
Too many of these. Used to be more of an issue when the game came out, but overabundance of respecs incentivizes switching your build willy-nilly. Which in turn leads to a feeling of not being able to overcome and, in the end, frustration about the game.
I know I'm taking something away, so I fully expect to be downvoted when I say this, but that is what I believe.
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Anonymous
Question, can I get more larval tears in NG+ or do the enemies not drop them if you've already gotten the tear that they drop?
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Anonymous
Someone like me who's playing the game again in light of the dlc to keep the rust off. I've put alot of hours into the game and you know got to the bored point. I always change at the slightest whim of wanting to play a new build. Here's hoping the dlc makes these at least farmable if not purchasable.
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Anonymous
There's a strange amount of these. 18 is in-between a lot and not enough. I kept getting bored of builds until I realized I only had 3 left. There's so many where to the average person it seems to be way more than you need, but ADHD brain says "just one more build with a cool sword."
Honestly, just make them renewable, it wouldn't change much considering there's already 18.
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Anonymous
There's one in Mt. Gelmir. Keep going down the path where you find the map item for the area. You'll fight a... man it's the corrupted tree spirit thing lol. I got one after killing it. Which was clutch. I'm back playing again since launch and used my last for my new build. Already had all the others and now I can respec back to faith
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Anonymous
Anonymous
In reality there are only 17 tears to get bc no sane person will try to fight that Chadbear noble buried in the snow by the Inner Consecrated Snowfield.
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Anonymous
What were they thinking? If you're gonna give us this many per playthrough just make them purchasable/farmable, limiting these as a way to make your level-ups more impactful/important is pointless if you give us 18 chances to get it right...
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Anonymous
The Larval Tear in Altus Plateu is almost directly south of Windmill Village, not south-east.
Anonymous
Anonymous
there really should be more of these, it would make more people experiment with their builds instead of just copying some busted build off youtube
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
Since 1.07, the Wormface in Mt. Gelmir is already there without killing the Putrid Corpse, at least in my two playthroughs since the new update.
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Anonymous
I used a cheat engine to spawn like 100 these, there's no reason to limit these when there is such a variety of builds to try out
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Anonymous
They need to make these available to purchase after beating Elden Beast or in a DLC (as well as the ancient stones and other upgrade mats). For PVE the limit is whatever but for PVP, I want to try out lots of different weapons/builds without having to make new characters. Even if they costed Rune Arcs it would be totally fine.
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Anonymous
Fromsoft, we are waaay past the days of limiting respecs per play through, especially if you are going to continue to patch and balance the game. The need to be farmable/buyable asap. Pls k thx luv u.
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Anonymous
The fact you cant drop these for other players is a travesty....i was planning on making new characters, grabbing tears, then muling them to my main but i guess not
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Anonymous
Anonymous
I think 1million runes would be a nice vending price plus I could actually do something with my runes after 150. I dont even go back for them anymore unless its over 500K and just dump them into upgrade stones that ill never use
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Anonymous
just add an evergaol that can be replayed forever somewhere in the eternal city that houses a mimic tear and drops a larval tear. this way you can fight the mimic tear as much as you want and also get a renewable source of larval tears.
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Anonymous
Oh yeah lesser runebear in consecrated fields for larval tear....lesser runebear huh.....I will have my vengeance!
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Anonymous
Okay I'm gonna just make every statement about glitches with larval tears I've found, including extra gained or lost. Rennala, I just used one then immediately pressed rebirth again after even though I didn't own anymore larval tears, was allowed to use another one that didn't exist. Village of the albinaurics has two glitches, one time it said I got the larval tear but checked my key items and never received it, the second one was not getting on at all, just a rune arc. A third thing is that, if you kill one of the transforming enemies while you die, and you don't get the notify of receiving the tear before you die, don't worry, there's a good chance you'll just have to kill the enemy again (tested on the larval tear bear in consecrated). And the fourth thing, not a glitch but a tip (pretty sure only works for PC and PS4 users with PSPLUS), you can make a build and then when you wanna start a new one just upload your save beforehand so you keep your larval tear when you wanna go back to another one, just by reloading your save (beware PS4 USERS, sometimes it will automatically save your data and ruin it, this is often random and can happen at any time, so make sure you arent depending purely on recovering your save)
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Anonymous
Another glitch I found (same dude girl about the other glitch with village). So I used a larval tear, ran out after, and immediately pressed rebirth again (on accident, was spamming to skip dialogue), and it let me rebirth again, obviously I denied that because I didn't want to do it again, but then after I couldn't, it's like I had an imaginary extra tear that disappeared because I didn't accept it's offer
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Anonymous
I think there's a glitch for the one in the village of the albinaurics, because the last playthrough on journey 6, I didn't get one even though it said I did, it gave the notif of getting it but I checked key items and didn't have one, and now journey 7 I just got a rune arc instead
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I swear everyone cry and complain about this is a pc player and can easily get more with cheat engine. If you want to do 100+ builds all for pvp you can easily save your profits, do the build, go pvp enjoy it, then reload your save when you get bored to try new build. Finish the game get all items, then keep doing this all you want. You can save your Smithing stones and use them everytime you do a new build too.
If you want PVE then 17 more then enough to go through all the builds twiceReplyReplies (0)
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Anonymous
Are these the byproduct of Astel? It called "larval", but it also has an umbilical cord.
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Having 18 of these per playthrough is great for trying out new builds in PvP but they seriously oughta add an infinite amount of dragon smithing stones in the post-endgame.
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Anonymous
Unless they bring back Larval Tears as farmable, I'm done with Elden Ring. With all the build possibilities, the 100-300-hour playtime, as well as some of the really hard bosses, giving us only 18 respecs is a straight-up jerk move. DS3 respecs were limited, but DS3 was also much smaller and the experience so much better balanced that the limited amount wasn't much of a problem. If I didn't like a build and was at the limit, it wasn't a big deal to get to NG+. Elden Ring is huge and the balance can be pretty erratic, especially after Leyndell, and we should be able to fine tune as much times as needed (I'm fine with grinding items out, rune prices, etc.).
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Anonymous
Just drop all your tears to a friend and load the save file at the state before the trade, then have him drop them back to you.
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Anonymous
Should be farmable just like Rune Arcs, there is no logical reason to make them limited at all (and don't say NG+ because the entire NG+ system in ER needs a massive overhaul, specially with all the duplicate crafting book items and duplicate spirit ashes you get that are useless, way too much clutter for little reward, it feels very rushed like they didn't think anyone will play NG+ and notice how it feels unplanned and unorganized, hopefully gets fixed in DLC or patch).
Maybe make some of the super annoying enemies that drop nothing of value drop these instead at 10%-5% rate or something (stupidly annoying enemies that aren't really worth fighting at all right now like Runebears, Giant Crayfish, Royal Revenants, Abductors, etc), at least there will be a good reason to fight them instead of just avoiding them completely.
So people who want to experiment with builds in PVP aren't forced to keep playing into NG+++++ just to get some extra Larval Tears.
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Anonymous
people saying these things should be infinite are dumb lmao, this is a RPG, it's not some heavy cRPG like Fallout or something, but the RPG part in Action-RPG is still a thing and should be important. You made a sh*tty build? You have to live with it, simple as that. There should be like one or two respecs per playthrough honestly, mostly for things like adjusting your stats or something, but not infinite, not even the amount already present.
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Anonymous
No joke I used all Larval tears at Rennala and after that i can respec infinitely it's true
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Anonymous
I used all of my respec and don't feel like doing another playthrough just to change my build. Honestly just going to quit this game for a while
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Anonymous
back up save, O back up save, therefore, you must back up save
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Anonymous
I can confirm that after using all, I repeat ALL Larval Tears available in the game Rennala allows you to respecc for free
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Anonymous
Once again the information is wrong. There's 4 lobsters around the gazebo between the church and the shack, 3 of which are directly next to the gazebo. Vet it together.
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Anonymous
so what happened to "If all Larval Tears available in the game are used, Rennala will allow you to be reborn infinitely without further Larval Tears. "? did someone add that to the wiki as a prank? cause its gone now
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Anonymous
I wish I could respec into a giant sentient wrecking ball like the silver tears
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To conserve your larval tears, please research the stats individually as well as their influences on certain weapons via scaling.
Learn what works on paper before throwing points into random stats
STR/DEX are your core stats, with INT/FTH/ARC as your secondary stats, focus on combinations of Core/Secondary.
Alot of people upset for the sole reason of "Can't figure out my build" here.ReplyReplies (2)
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My previous message disappeared so I'm asking this again:
Can someone confirm "If all Larval Tears available in the game are used, Rennala will allow you to be reborn infinitely without further Larval Tears. "?I don't want to start NG, I just want to change builds for PVP/invades, so I want to be sure if this info is true or not. Thanks
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"If all Larval Tears available in the game are used, Rennala will allow you to be reborn infinitely without further Larval Tears. "
Can someone confirm/explain this? This this cover the current game, so I don't need to start NG to get more?ReplyReplies (0)
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Larval tears are dropped by the huge cannon ball looking enemies as well. I farmed about 10 last night. I'm pretty sure it was underground in the castle on the way to The Lake of Rot that there's a few of them close to each other.
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Anonymous
while I was live streaming hunting tears and getting the Haligtree Secret Medallion piece under the Village of the Albinaurics. There is a alter like structure with some demi=humans and I found a tear not listed here. Wanted to share.
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Anonymous
Whining wimps never played Dark Souls or Demon's Souls. Dark Souls 2 not that bad after ey boiiii.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
The video links for Nokron should go behind the previous 4 bullet points. Now it looks like Nokron has eight Larval Tears when it only has 4.
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Anonymous
Lol people complaining that you only get 18 respecs, that's still more than enough compared to dks3 where you only had 5(assuming you wouldn't use the infinite glitch)
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Pidia is NOT in the Southeastern part of three sisters. It's the SouthWestern part where you drop.
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Anonymous
These things have a lot more value in general. I'm only level 170 and I can't choose between faith/arc, int/arc, int/faith, faith/dex, or arc/dex.
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Anonymous
Wish we could get these instead of silly rune arcs. Rune arcs are beneficial in PVE while the larval tear have alot more value for PVP. Makes me more sense to rewards invaders with Larval tears instead of rune arcs.
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Anonymous
lobster in the lake has to be killed before the scion will show. it's different than many of the others which changed when you hit them once. will try the 10 plus infinite gig out as soon as I get further in this playthrough. thanks for all the comments!
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