Is it true that the pronunciation of Spanish changed because a king had a lisp? So Barcelona became "Barthelona". If so, which king was it? | Notes and Queries (2024)

Is it true that the pronunciation of Spanish changed because a king had a lisp? So Barcelona became "Barthelona". If so, which king was it?

Robert Smith, Zilina, Slovakia

• I heard this rumour too but also heard a conflicting one that the lisp comes from the same tendencies in Arabic and originates in the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsula. I also believe that the lisp is only commonplace in Castillian Spanish, so while a Madridillo might pronounce it Barthelona, in Barcelona itself the c would be pronounced as an 's' rather than a 'th'.

  Seth Chanas, Edinburgh, Scotland

• If that were so, wouldn't we be off to Thpain?

  Stella Alvarez, London, UK

• The story about the lisping king is widely told, but cannot be genuine, because if it were, 's' would be lisped as well, but only 'c' and 'z' are.

  Colin Fine, Bradford, UK

• Castilian Spanish of the Middle Ages had originally two distinct sounds for what we now think of as the "lisp": the cedilla, and the z as in "dezir".

  The cedilla made a "ts" sound and the "z" a "dz" sound. Both in time were simplified into the "lisp", or what Spaniards call the "ceceo".

  Incidentally, this case replicates the two sounds represented by "zz" in Tuscan Italian - "ts" in "pizza", "dz" in "azzuro" - which, in the Modenese dialect, are both pronounced like English "th".

  John Bennett, Glasgow, Scotland

• The reason why people in Barcelona pronounce it "Barselona" is that they speak Catalan, not Castillian. Catalan does not have the "c" pronounced as "th". Amazing.

  Lau, Brussels, Belgium

  See Also

  Common Flowers of BarcelonaCattleyaCattleya | Orchids InfoRoman Barcelona ~ Discover the Colony of Barcino

• I don't know about Spanish, but I seem to remember my Ancient History textbook saying that Alcibiades was so influential with the young of Athens that they took up his lisp, thus changing forever the pronunciation of Attic greek. (The attic equivelent of estuary english, or "Yo, dude ... "?)

  Lane Blume, Marrickville, Australia

• A friend of mine is from Barcelona and he speaks Catalan but he pronounces it with a 'th' sound not 's'. Maybe his Spanish teacher at school was from another part of Spain!

  Corrie, London, England

• How is it that the Latin American countries do not use the "th" sound when they can only have been taught the Spanish language by Cortez and his friends? This would imply that Cortez himself did not use the "th" sound nor probably those of his aquaintance even in fact those at the Spanish court.

  Michael Baines, Cardiff, Wales, UK

• King Alfredo.

  William Petitte, Fairfield Ct.

• There is no such thing as a "spanish lisp" if there was there would be no 's' in the spanish language.This is an ignorant assumption made by southern americans because they are not able to speak the language properly. C and Z are the equivalent to the english 'th' while s is S and pronounced as S...such as Salamanca. South Americans speak with the 's' sound for 'Z' and 'C' because of change in the language, just like Americans speak differently from the British. This is an urban legend, and a shame to the spanish language, which is castillian.

  Andres, Greenwich United States

• My son visited Barcelona and said everyone from that area that he heard said Barcelona with a th sound. Supposedly because a young Dauphin had a lisp and wanted everyone to sound like him. Ebiza also has a th sound to replace the Z sound. But who knows what the origin is for sure.

  F Hastings, Woodstock , Vt USA

• This is ridiculous to think. The lisp is due to a certain dialect, just like there are a variety of dialects in every language. If people just changed the way they spoke so they wouldn't insult the king, why would the lisp continue after the king died? And how would it be socialized into their children? Seeing as they wouldn't have to lisp unless the king was around. It's just one of those silly stories to make an entertaining origin of something that's really not all that strange or interesting.

  Daniel, Ontario United States

• Here in the US, we've seen radical pronunciations of countries, continents--even some of Earth's well-established peoples by US Presidents -- then universally imitated by the entire North American population. Obvious examples would be Ronald Reagans Granada to "grah-nay-dah"; George W. Bush's Iraq to "eye-rack" and Muslimphobia rants about the "eye-ranians"We here immediately follow our leader's pronunciations, quickly and unapologetically repeating these "official" pronunciations en masse - from mass media to Mass at church.It wasn't Americans who invented the lisping leadership business, as somebody earlier suggested, because 98% of us here couldn't find Spain on a map if our lives depended on it.

  Cary Harrison, West Hollywood, California, USA

• Cary Harrison's logic is precise. that is why all fellow denizens of the Bear Republic pronounce their home state as cal-ee-FOR-nee-ah. because people in north america all instantly change the way they pronounced words based on how politicians do, who whole invent new pronunciations just to show off how arrogant and stupid Americans are. i'm so glad Cary Harrison is around to illuminate the rest of the world to these dumb american ways.

  Jaroslav Hasek, Prague Czech, Republic

  See Also

  HOW THE BARCELONA FLOWER SAVED THE CITY’S STREETS AND REPUTATION

• WOW. All of you have it wrong! Are you all guessing?Barcelona was once a big Greek colony. When they were romanized they spoke latin with a Greek accent. As you know, vulgar latin evolved into Spanish. The peoples in that area speak in that fashion because of their Greek linguistic heritage.Not everyone in Spain speaks this way.

  Ted Davis, Toronto, Canada

• As has been pointed out by many people, the lisp story is a myth. It is not lisp. It is just the way the z, and the c when followed by an i or an e, are pronounced in the Spanish of Northern and Central Spain.As to the pronunciation of Barcelona, in Catalan it is pronounced almost the same as in English. The only difference would be the slightly different pronunciation of the l and the o.For those who have heard Catalan people pronounce it as "Barthelona", that was probably because they were speaking Spanish: in the variety of Spanish spoken in Catalonia it is pronounced "Barthelona". But if they were speaking Catalan then they were just pronouncing it wrong, because the "th" sound doesn't even exist in Catalan. If they were speaking English, then this was probably due to a form of code switching: because Spanish is a more international language, some Catalans, consciously or sub-consciously, will pronounce words the Spanish way rather than the Catalan way because they think, usually mistakenly, that they're making it easier for the foreign listener to understand.

  Timothy Barton, Sant Quirze del Vallès Catalonia

• "If that were so, wouldn't we be off to Thpain?"Actually, recalling the specific pronunciation of a Spanish friend of mine--we'd be off to Ethpain.

  Greg, Slough UK

• why would we be "off to thpain"?? there's no c in spain. the pronounciation of c before i or e confused me for years. having been taught to lisp the c in gracias, for example, i travelled to different parts of spain on 4 occassions and never heard a "lisp" once. its like any language, if you tried to explain local/regional dialects in britain to foreign speakers with rules it would be almost impossible!im off to thpain. i mean spain

  ryan, belfast n ireland

• In Columbus first trip, sailors were volunteers from Andalucian prisons. Their way of speaking Spanish, supressing the letter "S" at the end of words and the "JOTEO" or pronunciation of middle "S" as a Spanish "J" sound, is what is known today as Caribbean accent. It spread all over the coast of Colombia and Venezuela, as well as in Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico. Some "Rs" are pronounced as the letter "L". In later trips, adventurers and conquerors from the North of Spain brought their own accent. The "S" pronounced with the tip of the tongue raised and touching the upper teeth gum ridge is still common in the accent of Colombia´s coffee growing region. They are known in Colombia as "Paisas".The letter "S" in neutral accent does not use the tongue at all.

  Rene Figueroa-Locutor, Bogota, Colombia

• In a way the "lisping" of the letters c and z in Spanish in certain parts of Spain is a refinement in that it distinguishes their sound from that of the letter s making the language more "phonetic".

  nora coryell, Jackson, USA

• I believe the Greek answer fits best. If you look at the last letter in Spanish, it is zeta. In Madrid one would pronounce it theta. There is a Greek letter theta. Greeks settled the Italian peninsula and Spain (the Malicians and into later times). That th sound makes Spanish (in Madrid) the only truly phonetic Spanish. The Spanish further south do not use the th pronunciation. The Americas were settled by predominantly immigrants from Southern Spain, so of course they don't have the th. (The Cubans have the closest to Andalucian as they drop their final s's.) And the Argentinians were settled by many French and Italian speakers, so they say zho for yo and cazhes for calles. No dialetics are wrong. Just different. Isn't variety the spice of life?

  Doug Jonsson, Portland, Oregon USA

• Ryan, he meant that if it was a true lisp then all s sounds would be pronounced th. I.e.: the lisp is not selective based non letter arrangement but sound.Thee ya.

  jordi, bangor uk

• To Andres Greenwich why would you be such a pompous ass to say that it's ignorant Southern Americans that propagate that rumor when I've heard it from people as far as Canada? Not very nice Andres

  Brad, New Orleans USA

• Canadian Comedian Russll peters has the same king story in his show, its awesome and incredibly funny here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1isS8irYrew

  Edgar, Toronto, Canada

• That's wrong, we have our own language in Catalunya(whence barcelona region forms part).Our language is Catalanand we pronunciate Barcelona as /Barsalona/and in Spanish language (the second language of our regions)is pronuncied as:/Barthelona/

  Arnau, Barcelona Catalunya

• Visca Barcelona

  Bob, Manchester Chorkor

• You guys need to stop spreading urban legend and just look in Wikipedia (Spanish phonology) which has well documented linguistic sources. C was pronounced ts and a was pronounced dz; these became th in Madrid but s in Andalusia (southern Spain). Most settlers in The Americas came from Southern Spain so in the Americas c z and s are all pronounced s.

  Brian, Atlanta USA

• No matter what the topic, you can count on a comment by a self-flagellating American-- with Europeans later piling on. So Michael Harrison assumes 98% of Americans have no idea where Spain is, and he interprets simple mispronunciation as Islamophobia. I guess we dare not ever mention that Muslims are responsible 99% of the world's terrorism--how politically incorrect would that be?

  Ed Anderson, Philadelphia USA

• John Bennett is right, just think of how you pronounce pizza in English.However, not all of Spain uses that pronunciation, particularly north central Andalucía as well as the Canary Islands.Most immigrants to the Americas (although not all) came from those two areas.Also, "th" was only becoming standard in Spain at the time Spanish immigration to the Americas first began.The end of the story being, it just didn't catch on here.

  Sam Smith, New York, US

• My 10th grade Spanish teacher studied Spanish at the University of Madrid. Since that university was her place of study, she taught us to speak Castillian Spanish (using the lisp with C's, and Z's). My dad was in the Air Force, and when I was 18, received his orders to PCS to Torrejon AFB, Madrid. I know from living there that they do speak with a lisp because of a former king. It is only this form of Spanish that uses this lisp (the Madrid area). Other parts of Spain don't use the lisp when pronouncing C's, and Z's.

  Kris, Anchorage USA

• "Cary Harrison's logic is precise... because people in north america... invent new pronunciations just to show off how arrogant and stupid Americans are. ...these dumb american ways."Coutesy of: Jaroslav Hasek, Prague Czech, RepublicInteresting Jarolsav. If such comments were made about Israelis or Kenyans one might think you were xenophobic, spouting hate speech. Perhaps it's worth consideration that some of the top universities in the world reside in the States and world leaders in technology, science, art and many other fields just happen to be citizens of a country that makes up a mere 5% of world population. Perhaps Jarolsav has been watching too much television, which seems to have a fairly one-way lens, focusing and judging the US abroad. How convenient and timely. Mainstream media spreads the worst of US culture like manure across the continents for the gullible like Jarolsav to consume. Traveling 20 years ago, a fair number of Europeans were unfortunately ignorant enough to think the US was some form of the television show Dallas. You are what you eat Jarolsav. What is your experience? -Hollywood movies, a trip to New York, better yet... Miami! If you think you know someone Jarolsav, or someplace, or say a people based on experiences that are not your own, you are likely sadly misinformed. Or it may be a matter of, "the company you keep." I'm wondering if this is the case for you? By the way, it's a true fact, King Pedro I de Castilla had a lisp. But, by good fortune for the King, the natural progression of the "th's" linguistic evolution preceded the King by a mere generation. Voila! So there, perhaps now everyone can be content. Except Jaroslav of course... Poor Jarolsav, I'm sure he is quite upset that an arrogant and dumb American solved the issue for him.

  Betty, Podunk USA